MOURC Proceedings Archive for The Loon

	MOURC Proceedings Archive - Gulls, Terns	Accepted Duplicates
	This is the 1981 to present Records Committee Proceedings archive for The Loon, journal of the Minnesota Ornithologists' Union. The last 2 years are available to MOU members.

Families

Whistling-Ducks, Geese, Swans, Ducks
New World Quail
Partridge, Pheasants, Grouse, Turkeys
Grebes
Pigeons, Doves
Cuckoos
Nightjars
Swifts
Hummingbirds
Rails, Gallinules, Coots
Limpkin
Cranes
Stilts, Avocets
Plovers
Sandpipers

Jaegers
Alcids
Gulls, Terns
Loons
Shearwaters and Petrels
Storks
Frigatebirds
Boobies and Gannets
Anhingas
Cormorants
Pelicans
Bitterns, Herons, Egrets, Night-Herons
Ibises
New World Vultures
Osprey

Kites, Accipiters, Hawks, Eagles
Barn Owls
Screech-Owls, Owls
Woodpeckers
Caracaras, Falcons
Flycatchers
Vireos
Shrikes
Jays, Nutcrackers, Magpies, Crows
Martins, Swallows
Kinglets
Silky-flycatchers
Nuthatches
Wrens
Thrashers, Mockingbirds

Dippers
Thrushes
Old World Flycatchers
Old World Sparrows
Pipits
Finches
Longspurs and Snow Buntings
Towhees, Sparrows
Yellow-breasted Chat
Blackbirds, Orioles
Warblers
Tanagers, Cardinals, Grosbeaks

Proceedings

Species: Gulls, Terns

	Ref	First	Last	Location	County	Comment	Status
Iceland Gull (R) (Larus glaucoides)						Start Date 1936-01-01
	24:89	1952	index			The Iceland Gull in Minnesota
	39:44-48	1967	index			The Iceland Gull in Minnesota: Its Status and Identification
	41:26-27	1969	index			Iceland Gull Records for the 1967-68 Winter Season
	42:119	1970	index			May Record for an Iceland Gull
	54:42	1971-04-05		Two Harbors	Lake	(vote 0-7) This previously published record (Loon 43:84) was refiled as unacceptable since the details did not preclude a first-winter Thayer's Gull.	Not Accepted
	45:134	1973	index			White-winged Gull
	45:134	1973	index			White-winged Gull
	46:82-83	1974	index			Thayer's Gull in Duluth
	46:136-142	1974	index			Thayer's Gull and Its Status in Minnesota
	47:94-95	1975	index			Probable Thayer's Gull at Black Dog
	47:99-100	1975	index			An Iceland Gull at Stoney Point
	47:101	1975	index			Clarification of an Iceland Gull Record
	47:133-134	1975	index			Thayer's Gull at Duluth
	54:42	1975-02-15		Stoney Point	St. Louis	(vote 0-7) Although originally accepted in 1975 by M.O.R.C., this published record (Loon 47:99) was reconsidered and found to be unacceptable, since the tail had "a broad banded appearance" and the back and wings were the same huffy coloration throughout; these two features indicate the gull was probably a first-winter Thayer's.	Not Accepted
	avian information	1981-03-15			Blue Earth	3/15 Blue Earth (first spring record)
	48:71-72	1976	index			Observations of Thayer's Gull in 1975
	48:71	1976	index			Iceland Gull at Duluth
	48:72	1976	index			Thayer's Gull at Black Dog
	50:121	1978	index			Possible Fall Thayer's Gull at Black Dog
	50:175-176	1978	index			Iceland Gull Record in Early May
	51:107-108	1979	index			Iceland Gull at Black Dog
	51:115-117	1979	index			Was it a Glaucous or Iceland Gull?
	54:3-4	1982	index			Two Iceland Gulls in Duluth
1	54:147	1982-01-02	1982-01-09	Duluth	St. Louis	(vote 7-0, Loon 54:1,3-4)	Accepted
2	55:41	1982-11-16		Grand Marais	Cook	(vote 7-0, Loon 55:38)	Accepted
	avian information	1984-04-25			Renville	4/25 Renville (first county record)
	avian information	1985-05-04			Freeborn	5/4 Freeborn (first county record)
	avian information	1986-04-30			Wabasha	4/30 Wabasha (first spring record)
	avian information	1986-05-18			Traverse	5/18 Traverse (first spring record)
	avian information	1986-05-28			Jackson	5/28 Jackson (first county record)
	55:33	1983	index			Another Iceland Gull Record
	55:38	1983	index			An Iceland Gull at Grand Marais
	55:188-189	1983	index			Iceland/Thayer's Gull: An Identification Problem
	55:188-189	1983	index			Iceland/Thayer's Gull: An Identification Problem
	58:18-20	1986	index			Thayer's/Iceland Gull Identification Problem
	58:18-20	1986	index			Thayer's/Iceland Gull Identification Problem
	58:96-97	1986	index			Third-year Thayer's Gull Observed in Hennepin County
3	59:143	1986-12-02	1986-12-09	Grand Marais	Cook	(vote 7-0; The Loon 59:54-55) .	Accepted
4	59:57	1986-12-08		L. Calhoun; Minneapolis	Hennepin	(vote 7-0; The Loon 58:61). The following records were voted on JulyDecember,	Accepted
5	59:143	1986-12-17	1987-01-10	Duluth	St. Louis	(3rd winter) (votes on all five records 7-0; The Loon 59:100-101).	Accepted
6	59:143	1986-12-17	1987-01-17	Duluth	St. Louis	(2nd winter) (votes on all five records 7-0; The Loon 59:100-101).	Accepted
	59:54-55	1987	index			Two Iceland Gulls at Grand Marais
	59:55	1987	index			Iceland Gull at Lake Calhoun
	59:100-101	1987	index			Overwintering Gulls at Duluth, 1986-87
7	59:143	1987-02-02		Duluth	St. Louis	(adult) (votes on all five records 7-0; The Loon 59:100-101).	Accepted
	avian information	1987-11-11			Waseca	11/11 Waseca (first county record)
8	60:13	1987-12-10		Grand Marais	Cook	(vote 7-0; The Loon 60:43-44)	Accepted
9	80:5	1987-12-20	1987-12-21	Black Dog Lake	Dakota	(record #2007-089, vote 6-1). Contemporaneous field notes were recently discovered and submitted for review. This species was Casual in 1987 and the record had not been evaluated in the past due to lack of documentation. Acceptance of this record 20 years later underscores the value of notes taken during an observation.	Accepted
	avian information	1988-10-22			Faribault	10/22 Faribault (first county record)
	60:43-44	1988	index			Adult Iceland Gull in Grand Marais
10	61:121	1988-12-05		Black Dog L.	Dakota	(vote 7-0; The Loon 61:48-49).	Accepted
11	61:121	1988-12-18	1988-12-23	St. Paul	Ramsey	(vote 7-0).	Accepted
	avian information	1989-04-13			Freeborn	4/13 Freeborn (second county record)
	61:3-4	1989	index			A Gathering of Gulls
	61:48-49	1989	index			An Iceland Gull: Species No. 8 at Black Dog, December 1988
	61:207-208	1989	index			An Iceland Gull in Hennepin County
12	62:12	1989-11-19		Minneapolis	Hennepin	(vote 7-0; The Loon 61:207-208).	Accepted
13	62:134	1989-12-14	1989-12-16	Duluth	St. Louis	(vote 7-0; The Loon 62:110) .	Accepted
	avian information	1990-04-25			Le Sueur	4/25 Le Sueur (first county record)
	avian information	1990-04-28			Cottonwood	4/28 Cottonwood (first county record)
	avian information	1990-05-02			Kandiyohi	5/2 Kandiyohi (first county record)
	62:110	1990	index			Another Iceland Gull Record from Duluth
	63:154	1991-03-30		Black Dog Lake	Dakota	(vote 3-4). This adult "whitewinged" gull was identified as an Iceland rather than a Glaucous because its body and bill were "essentially identical in size to the Herring Gulls" which were present for direct comparison. However, some female Glaucous Gulls can appear to be no larger in overall size than male Herring Gulls, and at the distance involved (200 yards) it would be difficult to accurately determine bill size. Without a closer look and without mention of the head and neck size and shape, the majority felt Glaucous Gull was not precluded.	Not Accepted
14	64:15	1991-11-09	1991-11-10	Grand Marais	Cook	(vote7-0; The Loon 64:5961).	Accepted
15	64:138	1991-11-09		Black Dog L.	Dakota	(vote 7-0; The Loon 64:123-124).	Accepted
16	64:15	1991-11-25		Black Dog Lake	Dakota	(vote 7-0; The Loon 64:57,59).	Accepted
17	64:138	1991-12-29	1992-02-15	Knife River	Lake	(vote 7-0; The Loon 64:119-120.	Accepted
	64:57	1992	index			Adult Iceland Gull at Black Dog Lake
	64:59-61	1992	index			First-winter Iceland Gull in Grand Marais
	64:119-120	1992	index			Great Black-backed and Iceland Gulls at Knife River
	64:123-124	1992	index			Adult Iceland Gull at Black Dog Lake
18	64:138	1992-04-30		Duluth	St. Louis	(vote 7-0).	Accepted
19	65:146	1992-12-04		Lake City	Wabasha	(vote 7-0; The Loon 65:97-98).	Accepted
	65:33	1992-12-12		Lake Harriet	Hennepin	(vote 1-6). This adult gull was identified only on the basis of its overall size, described as "the size of a Herring Gull." However, this does not preclude the more likely Glaucous Gull, which can often look about the same size overall as a Herring Gull.	Not Accepted
	avian information	1993-04-12			Big Stone	4/12 Big Stone (first county record)
	avian information	1993-04-15			Pennington	4/15 Pennington (first county record)
	avian information	1993-04-17			Steele	4/17 Steele (first county record)
	avian information	1993-04-18			Sherburne	4/18 Sherburne (first county record)
	65:97-98	1993	index			Iceland Gull at Lake City
	65:155	1993	index			Thayer's Gull Seen in Thief River Falls
	66:127	1993-10-30		Minneapolis	Hennepin	The entire description of this adult gull, including the brown iris and gray coloration of the folded wing tips, is consistent with both Iceland and Thayer's gulls. While the gull may well have been an Iceland, there is nothing in the documentation to preclude a Thayer's.	Not Accepted
20	66:43	1993-11-10		Black Dog Lake	Dakota	(vote 5-2).	Accepted
21	66:127	1993-12-10	1993-12-14		Anoka	(The Loon 66:102-103).	Accepted
22	66:127	1993-12-10	1993-12-14		Hennepin	(The Loon 66:102-103).	Accepted
	avian information	1993-12-11	1993-12-18		Anoka	12/11, 12, 15, 18 Anoka (first winter record) One first-winter individual reported 12/10 Hennepin and 12/10–17 Anoka KB, mob (*The Loon* 66:102–103).
23	66:127	1993-12-18		Black Dog Lake	Dakota		Accepted
	avian information	1994-03-29			Scott	3/29 Scott (first county record) One report: 4/9 Oak Grove Township, Anoka Co. KB (*The Loon* 66:147–148).
	66:102-103	1994	index			Iceland Gull in the Twin Cities
	66:147-148	1994	index			Iceland and Lesser Black-backed Gulls in Anoka County
24	66:127	1994-04-09			Anoka	(The Loon 66:147-148).	Accepted
	avian information	1994-04-09			Anoka	4/9 Anoka (second county record) One report: 4/9 Oak Grove Township, Anoka Co. KB (*The Loon* 66:147–148).
	avian information	1994-04-10			Renville	4/10 Renville (second county record) One report: 4/9 Oak Grove Township, Anoka Co. KB (*The Loon* 66:147–148).
25	67:45	1994-12-09	1994-12-26	Black Dog Lake	Dakota		Accepted
	67:113-114	1995	index			October Migration of Thayer's Gull in the Twin Cities
	67:116-117	1995	index			First-year Iceland Gull Near Red Wing, Goodhue County
	67:184-185	1995	index			Adult Iceland Gull at Red Wing, Goodhue County
	67:252-253	1995	index			Iceland Gull (Basic II Plumage) at Black Dog Lake
26	67:165	1995-03-25	1995-04-02	Red Wing	Goodhue	(The Loon 67:116-117).	Accepted
27	67:165	1995-03-29		Red Wing	Goodhue	(The Loon 67:184-185).	Accepted
28	67:165	1995-04-07		Pine Bend	Dakota		Accepted
	avian information	1995-04-17			Chisago	4/17 Chisago (first county record) Reported 3/25–4/2 Colville Park, Good-hue Co. (first-winter) BF, mob (The Loon 67:116–117), 3/29 Colville Park, Goodhue Co. (adult) KB (The Loon 67:184–185), 4/7 Pine Bend landfill, Dakota Co. (first-winter) KB .
	68:164	1995-11-05		Alexander Lake	Rice	This identification was apparently based almost entirely on eye color, but, as with the previous record, this field mark works only on adult birds, and there is no mention of this gull's age.	Not Accepted
	68:164	1995-11-12		Hunt Lake	Rice	The identification was based on the gull's darker eye and brighter pink legs than on a Herring Gull; however, the iris color is only useful on adult birds and there is no mention of the age of this gull, and there is no consistent difference in the leg colors of these two species. There is also no clear description of the pattern of the wing tips.	Not Accepted
	avian information	1995-11-26			Goodhue	11/26 Goodhue (first fall record) Reported 11/26 Lake City, Wabasha (adult) KB, 11/29 Black Dog Lake, Dakota (first-winter) KB.
29	68:58	1995-11-26		Lake City	Wabasha		Accepted
30	68:58	1995-11-29	1995-12-02	Black Dog Lake and Pine Bend	Dakota		Accepted
31	68:164	1995-12-01		Black Dog Lake	Dakota	(The Loon 67:252-253).	Accepted
	avian information	1996-11-02			McLeod	11/2 McLeod (first county record)
	avian information	1997-04-15			McLeod	4/15 McLeod (second county record)
	avian information	1997-05-15			Blue Earth	5/15 Blue Earth (second county record)
	avian information	1997-05-15			Faribault	5/15 Faribault (second county record)
	68:14-34	1996	index			Gull Migration in the Twin Cities
	68:14-34	1996	index			Gull Migration in the Twin Cities
32	70:156	1997-11-02	1997-12-08	Grand Marais	Cook	(photo record #98-29, vote 7-0).	Accepted
33	70:156	1997-12-14	1998-01-15	Black Dog L.	Dakota	(record #98-09, vote 7-0).	Accepted
34	70:156	1997-12-22	1998-01-15	Black Dog L. and Pine Bend landfill	Dakota	(record #98-11, vote 7-0).	Accepted
35	70:156	1998-02-18		Point Douglas Park	Washington	(record #98-15, vote 6-1).	Accepted
36	70:156	1998-03-13	1998-04-09	various locations	Dakota	(record #98-35, vote 7-0). 157 Fall 1998	Accepted
37	70:156	1998-03-13		Red Wing	Goodhue	(record #98-36, vote 7-0).	Accepted
38	70:156	1998-03-27		Pine Bend landfill	Dakota	(record #98-37, vote 7-0).	Accepted
39	70:156	1998-04-14		Duluth	St. Louis	(record #98-38, vote 7-0).	Accepted
40	71:36	1998-11-14		Duluth	St. Louis	(record #98-98, vote 7-0).	Accepted
41	71:36	1998-11-16		Grand Marais	Cook	(record #98-99, vote 7-0).	Accepted
42	71:156	1998-11-28		Duluth	St. Louis	(record #99-10, vote 7-0).	Accepted
	avian information	1998-12-06			Aitkin	12/6 Aitkin (first winter record) No reports.
	avian information	1998-12-27	1998-12-Nov		Rice	12/27-No Rice (first winter record) No reports.
	avian information	1999-03-23			Murray	3/23 Murray (first county record) No reports.
	avian information	1999-04-02			Scott	4/2 Scott (second county record) No reports.
	73:35	1999-04-05		Bemidji	Beltrami	(record #2000-07, vote 2-5). The description of this first-winter gull is not clear enough to indicate whether it was a worn or faded Herring Gull or a correctly identified Thayer's Gull. Those not accepting the record were bothered primarily by the apparent lack of darker secondaries and tail band, while the minority felt that the description was as good as — or better than — other Thayer's Gull records which have been accepted or published.	Not Accepted
	avian information	1999-04-10			Isanti	4/10 Isanti (first county record) No reports.
	avian information	1999-10-19			Lake of the Woods	10/19 Lake of the Woods (first county record) Only two reports: 11/14+ Cook (Grand Marais) CK, JSt et al., plus an additional first-winter bird 11/20 Cook †PC.
	73:35	2000-05-18		L. Lillian	Kandiyohi	(record #2000-62, vote 1-6). The identification may well have been correct, but there is still much misunderstanding among even experienced birders regarding the diagnostic field marks of this species, and many observers are unaware how faded and worn Herring Gulls can closely resemble Thayer's Gulls. In this case, the documentation leaves out too many details to be convincing, with uncertainties remaining about this gull's overall size, age, bill color, tail pattern, eye color, mantle color and pattern of the flight feathers.	Not Accepted
	avian information	2000-05-18			Kandiyohi	5/18 Kandiyohi (second county record) No reports.
	75:41	2002-04-08		near Lynd	Lyon	(record #2002-63, vote 2-5). There is nothing in the description indicating the condition of the plumage: that is, whether or not it was faded, worn, or bleached. And in the spring and summer it is common to see such abnormally pale Herring Gulls which bear an overall and close resemblance to paler gulls such as Thayer's (or even Glaucous or Iceland). Accordingly, those not accepting this record felt that the description may indeed fit a Thayer's Gull, but it also does not preclude a bleached or worn Herring Gull.	Not Accepted
	avian information	2002-04-08			Lyon	4/8 Lyon (first county record) No reports following good numbers during the fall (4) and winter (4) seasons.
	74:161	2002-04-11		Chaska	Carver	(record #2002-30, vote 1-6). Many gulls in spring and summer appear unnaturally pale due to feather wear, fading, or molt, and accordingly they are difficult to identify. Without attention paid to a gull's plumage condition at this time of year, even experienced observers frequently mistake these abnormally pale Herrings and other gulls for a Thayer's, Iceland, or Glaucous gull. This observer indicated he had no experience with Thayer's Gull, and he was uncertain of the age of this gull. In addition, the bird's size is described as the same or “slightly larger” than a Herring Gull, which would be possible but atypical for a Thayer's.	Not Accepted
	76:152	2004-04-22		Walter and Perry townships	Lac qui Parle	(record #2004-034, vote 0-7). The identification was based largely on eye color, but a small percentage of Herring Gulls are dark-eyed even as adults. The diagnostic underwing pattern of Thayer's Gull was not noted even though the bird was seen in flight four times.	Not Accepted
	avian information	2005-04-16			Kanabec	4/16 Kanabec (first county record) Only report: 4/16 Kanabec (first-cycle at Mora) ph. JWL, PHS.
	avian information	2006-05-19			Mille Lacs	5/19 Mille Lacs (first county record) Only report: 3/12 Goodhue (first-cycle bird at Hansen's Harbor, Lake Pepin) †KJB.
	avian information	2006-11-21			Sherburne	11/21 Sherburne (second county record) Only report: adult at Superior Entry 11/18 St. Louis ph. †PHS.
	avian information	2006-12-04			Sherburne	12/4 Sherburne (third county record) First-cycle bird 12/2 thru mid-December Dakota (Black Dog Lake) ph. †JPM, MCA, PHS, CLW, DWK, EEO. A large 2nd-cycle (male?) was present 12/20–1/8 Dakota (Black Dog Lake) ph. JPM, †PEB, DWK.
	avian information	2007-11-15			Cass	11/15 Cass (first county record) Only north reports from St. Louis: 11/8–17 (first-cycle, Duluth) ph. †KJB, DRB, LBe. Reported south only from Dakota 11/29 (heavily marked first-cycle at Black Dog L.) †JPM, 11/29–30 (adult Kumlien's at Black Dog L.) †BAF, †JPM.
	avian information	2008-05-13			Cass	5/13 Cass (second county record) All reports from St. Louis: 3/2 (second- or third-cycle, Duluth harbor) †PHS, 4/14–17 (Bailey's Lake, Virginia) DBF, †SLF.
	avian information	2009-03-24			Rice	3/24 Rice (second spring record) All reports from St. Louis: first-cycle gull found in late January reported through 4/19 ph. †PHS, m.ob.; 5/18–21 (first-cycle, record late) ph. KJB.
	avian information	2009-04-19			Isanti	4/19 Isanti (second spring record) All reports from St. Louis: first-cycle gull found in late January reported through 4/19 ph. †PHS, m.ob.; 5/18–21 (first-cycle, record late) ph. KJB.
	avian information	2009-10-01			Cass	10/1 Cass (third county record) Six different individuals, all reported from St. Louis (Superior Entry): 10/28+ (first-cycle, Minnesota side of Superior Entry) ph. KJB, ph. PHS, ph. MLH; 11/5+ (first-cycle) ph. PHS, ph. MLH, ph. KJB; 11/15+ (first-cycle) ph. vt. PHS, ph. KJB; 11/21+ (adult) MLH, PHS, ph. KJB; 11/23 (adult) ph. KJB; 11/28 (first-cycle) PHS. Two record high counts, both from Minnesota side of Superior Entry in St. Louis: 11/22 (4, one adult and three first-cycles) KJB, 11/28 (4, all first-cycle) PHS.
	avian information	2011-03-27			Jackson	3/27 Jackson (second county record) Third-cycle overwintered through 3/24 St. Louis (Duluth) ph. PHS, m.ob. First-cycle reported 3/13 St. Louis (Duluth) PHS, and presumably a different individual 4/29 St. Louis (Hearding Island) ph. PHS. Three presumed Thayer's Gull X Iceland Gull intergrades were also seen in March PHS (two overwintered).
	avian information	2011-06-02	2011-06-04		St. Louis	6/2, 4 St. Louis (first summer record)
	avian information	2013-06-10			St. Louis	6/10 St. Louis (second summer record) First summer record 6/10 St. Louis (first-cycle, Minnesota side of Superior Entry) ph. †PHS.
	avian information	2013-11-09			Roseau	11/9 Roseau (first county record) All reports were from St. Louis: 11/9 (unaged, Superior Entry) TRK, 11/15 (adult, Canal Park) JLK, ph. †PHS, MLH, 11/20 (unaged, Canal Park) JLK, 11/23 (adult, Canal Park) TRK, 11/29 (adult, Canal Park; this individual showed completely unmarked white primary tips, suggestive of L. g. glaucoides rather than the expected L. g. kumlieni) ph. †KJB.
	avian information	2014-05-11			Wabasha	5/11 Wabasha (second spring record) Only report: 5/11 Wabasha (first-cycle, C.R. 30 and C.R. 24) ph. ANy.
	avian information	2015-04-11			Isanti	4/11 Isanti (third county record) A total of four north individuals: 3/10 Lake (first-cycle, Knife Island) JWL, 4/30 St. Louis (3, two first-cycle and one second-cycle at Superior Entry) TRK, 5/10 St. Louis (one of the 4/30 birds continuing at Superior Entry) TRK, 5/16 St. Louis (continuing first-cycle) PHS.
	avian information	2016-02-22			Winona	2/22 Winona (first county record) High counts, all St. Louis (Duluth): 12/12 (5, Superior Entry) PHS, TRK, JLK, RJ, including three second-cycle, one third-cycle, one adult, 1/1 (4, Canal Park) SBM. Up to two birds overwintered into February (Canal Park) m.ob. One report from Lake (Two Harbors) 2/12 JWL. All south: 12/2–3 Hennepin (adult, Lake Harriet, continuing from 11/29) BAF, PRH, PNi, 2/22 Winona (adult, near Minneiska) †KnM.
	avian information	2016-03-12			Wabasha	3/12 Wabasha (third spring record) All south 3/26–27 Scott (flooded field on S.R. 13, 1/2 mile south of C.R. 8) BAb, †RMD, RBW, DWK, 4/3 Scott (same location) BAb. All north 3/3–4 St. Louis (Canal Park) ph. JPR, 3/6 St. Louis (Canal Park) YK, 3/7 St. Louis (Interstate Island W.M.A.) JPR, 3/15 St. Louis (2, Park Point R.A.) JPR, 4/9 St. Louis (2, Superior Entry) PHS, 4/27–29 St. Louis (Park Point R.A.) PHS, JWL, MLH, 5/1 St. Louis (first-cycle, Superior Entry) ClN.
	avian information	2016-03-26	2016-04-03		Scott	3/26-30, 4/3 Scott (third county record) All south 3/26–27 Scott (flooded field on S.R. 13, 1/2 mile south of C.R. 8) BAb, †RMD, RBW, DWK, 4/3 Scott (same location) BAb. All north 3/3–4 St. Louis (Canal Park) ph. JPR, 3/6 St. Louis (Canal Park) YK, 3/7 St. Louis (Interstate Island W.M.A.) JPR, 3/15 St. Louis (2, Park Point R.A.) JPR, 4/9 St. Louis (2, Superior Entry) PHS, 4/27–29 St. Louis (Park Point R.A.) PHS, JWL, MLH, 5/1 St. Louis (first-cycle, Superior Entry) ClN.
	avian information	2016-04-29			Sherburne	4/29 Sherburne (fourth spring record) All south 3/26–27 Scott (flooded field on S.R. 13, 1/2 mile south of C.R. 8) BAb, †RMD, RBW, DWK, 4/3 Scott (same location) BAb. All north 3/3–4 St. Louis (Canal Park) ph. JPR, 3/6 St. Louis (Canal Park) YK, 3/7 St. Louis (Interstate Island W.M.A.) JPR, 3/15 St. Louis (2, Park Point R.A.) JPR, 4/9 St. Louis (2, Superior Entry) PHS, 4/27–29 St. Louis (Park Point R.A.) PHS, JWL, MLH, 5/1 St. Louis (first-cycle, Superior Entry) ClN.
	avian information	2017-11-13			Clay	11/13 Clay (first county record) Early north (median 10/6) 10/7 St. Louis (adult, Superior Entry) MSb, 10/13 St. Louis (Stoney Point) TRd, StK, 10/14 St. Louis (first-cycle, Park Point) JPR. Early south (median 10/5) 10/28 Hennepin (2, Wood Lake N.C.) TBu, KBu, 11/10 Hennepin (first-cycle) CMB, 11/12 Hennepin (immature, Lake of the Isles) IVa, (Lake Harriet) GAn, 11/13 Rice TFB. Notable report 11/13 Clay (Clay County Gravel Pits) HeH, ShG. High counts 11/5 St. Louis (12, Superior Entry: 3 first-cycle, 2 second-cycle, 1 third-cycle, 6 adults) JOs, ClN, DnS, MiS, 11/12 St. Louis (11, Superior Entry (Minnesota): no first-cycle, 3 second-cycle, 2 third-cycle, 6 adults.) ClN. Only one individual confirmed as L. g. kumlieni, 11/17–25 Hennepin (adult) BAF, m.ob., but most reports did not specify between kumlieni and thayeri subspecies.
	avian information	2017-11-24			Lyon	11/24 Lyon (second county record) Early north (median 10/6) 10/7 St. Louis (adult, Superior Entry) MSb, 10/13 St. Louis (Stoney Point) TRd, StK, 10/14 St. Louis (first-cycle, Park Point) JPR. Early south (median 10/5) 10/28 Hennepin (2, Wood Lake N.C.) TBu, KBu, 11/10 Hennepin (first-cycle) CMB, 11/12 Hennepin (immature, Lake of the Isles) IVa, (Lake Harriet) GAn, 11/13 Rice TFB. Notable report 11/13 Clay (Clay County Gravel Pits) HeH, ShG. High counts 11/5 St. Louis (12, Superior Entry: 3 first-cycle, 2 second-cycle, 1 third-cycle, 6 adults) JOs, ClN, DnS, MiS, 11/12 St. Louis (11, Superior Entry (Minnesota): no first-cycle, 3 second-cycle, 2 third-cycle, 6 adults.) ClN. Only one individual confirmed as L. g. kumlieni, 11/17–25 Hennepin (adult) BAF, m.ob., but most reports did not specify between kumlieni and thayeri subspecies.
	avian information	2018-04-11			Winona	4/11 Winona (second county record) All south 4/11 Winona ASu. Overwintered in St. Louis and Lake. High counts 3/27 St. Louis (2, adult and third-cycle at W.S.H.C.) ClN, JDx. Latest north 4/21 St. Louis (adult, W.S.H.C.) JPR, FJN. No explicit reports to the subspecies level.
	avian information	2018-10-08			Kanabec	10/8 Kanabec (second county record) Â Early north (median 10/6) 10/8 Kanabec (2, Knife Lake) ASu, 10/12 St. Louis (adultÂ thayeri, Superior Entry) EzH, IsH, 10/26 St. Louis (thayeri, Superior Entry) REn. Early south (median 10/5) 11/2 Hennepin (adultÂ thayeri, Lake Harriet) FFa, 11/4–6 Lyon (first-cycle, Black Rush Lake W.P.A.) RJS, m.ob., 11/8 Hennepin (thayeri,Â Lake Harriet) CMB, ASu. High counts 11/18 St. Louis (8, Canal Park) MaJ, 11/18 St. Louis (5, Canal Park: 1 first-cycle, 1 third-cycle, 3 adults) ClN. Only two birds reported asÂ L. g. kumlieni,Â 11/18 St. Louis BAb, 11/22–25 Wabasha JWH, but most reports did not specify betweenÂ kumlieniÂ andÂ thayeriÂ subspecies.
	avian information	2018-11-04	2018-11-06		Lyon	11/4, 5, 6 Lyon (third county record) Â Early north (median 10/6) 10/8 Kanabec (2, Knife Lake) ASu, 10/12 St. Louis (adultÂ thayeri, Superior Entry) EzH, IsH, 10/26 St. Louis (thayeri, Superior Entry) REn. Early south (median 10/5) 11/2 Hennepin (adultÂ thayeri, Lake Harriet) FFa, 11/4–6 Lyon (first-cycle, Black Rush Lake W.P.A.) RJS, m.ob., 11/8 Hennepin (thayeri,Â Lake Harriet) CMB, ASu. High counts 11/18 St. Louis (8, Canal Park) MaJ, 11/18 St. Louis (5, Canal Park: 1 first-cycle, 1 third-cycle, 3 adults) ClN. Only two birds reported asÂ L. g. kumlieni,Â 11/18 St. Louis BAb, 11/22–25 Wabasha JWH, but most reports did not specify betweenÂ kumlieniÂ andÂ thayeriÂ subspecies.
	avian information	2018-11-24	2018-11-26		Goodhue	11/24, 26 Goodhue (second county record) Â Early north (median 10/6) 10/8 Kanabec (2, Knife Lake) ASu, 10/12 St. Louis (adultÂ thayeri, Superior Entry) EzH, IsH, 10/26 St. Louis (thayeri, Superior Entry) REn. Early south (median 10/5) 11/2 Hennepin (adultÂ thayeri, Lake Harriet) FFa, 11/4–6 Lyon (first-cycle, Black Rush Lake W.P.A.) RJS, m.ob., 11/8 Hennepin (thayeri,Â Lake Harriet) CMB, ASu. High counts 11/18 St. Louis (8, Canal Park) MaJ, 11/18 St. Louis (5, Canal Park: 1 first-cycle, 1 third-cycle, 3 adults) ClN. Only two birds reported asÂ L. g. kumlieni,Â 11/18 St. Louis BAb, 11/22–25 Wabasha JWH, but most reports did not specify betweenÂ kumlieniÂ andÂ thayeriÂ subspecies.
	avian information	2019-04-12			Lyon	4/12 Lyon (fourth county record) All south 3/22 Dakota/Washington (first-cycle, L. g. thayeri, Spring Lake) EzH, m.ob., 3/24 Ramsey (Chatham Open Space) LiH, 3/26 Ramsey (St. Paul Downtown Airport) BDo, 3/30 Anoka (L. g. thayeri, Rice Lake) LiH, 4/12 Lyon (adult, Black Rush Lake W.P.A.) GWe (L. g. thayeri), 4/13 Dakota (first cycle, L. g. thayeri, Spring Lake) EzH. All north 3/12 St. Louis (adult, W.S.H.C.) FJN, 3/18 Lake (first cycle, Gooseberry Falls S.P.) ClN, 3/27 St. Louis (adult, Duluth) KRE, 5/5 St. Louis (Park Point R.A.) JLK.
	avian information	2020-04-03	2020-04-04		Scott	4/3, 4 Scott (fourth county record) All south 3/21 Dakota (adult, L. g. thayeri, Spring Lake P.R.) EzH, IsH, 3/23 Dakota (140th St. Marsh) ASu, m.ob., 3/25 Ramsey (Lake Johanna) LiH, 3/26 Dakota (Spring Lake P.R.) AJF, 4/3–4 Scott (first-cycle, L. g. kumlieni, Spring Lake) ANy, m.ob., 4/11 Anoka (first-cycle, L. g. thayeri, Lake George R.P.) EzH, IsH, 4/19 Hennepin (Lake Harriet) ASu. Overwintered north in St. Louis, with season high count 4/19 (2, first-cycle and third- or fourth-cycle, L. g. thayeri, mouth of Miller Creek) ClN; reports of first-cycle L. g. thayeri from various locations through 5/22 (Park Point R.A.) PHS. Only north reports of L. g. kumlieni were first-cycles: 4/8 (Park Point R.A.) PHS, 4/13 (St. Louis Bay) PHS.
	avian information	2020-11-21			Kandiyohi	11/21 Kandiyohi (third county record) Early north (median 10/6) 10/13 St. Louis (adult thayeri, Superior Entry) PHS, 10/17 St. Louis (adult thayeri, Port Terminal) PHS, (thayeri, Superior Entry) MLH. Early south (median 10/5) 11/12 Hennepin (adult thayeri, Lake Harriet) FFa, m.ob., 11/14 Dakota (thayeri, Fort Snelling S.P.) MwT, 11/15 Dakota (2, SET-Empire mulch site: 1 first-cycle, 1 adult) MwT, Hennepin (thayeri, Lake Harriet) FFa. High counts 10/31 St. Louis (5, Superior Entry) NSg, 11/1 St. Louis (5, Superior Entry: 2 adults, 3 first cycle, all thayeri) ClN, m.ob. No individuals were reported as L.g. kumlieni, but many observations were not submitted at the subspecies level.
	avian information	2020-11-22	2020-11-26		Scott	11/22, 24, 26 Scott (fifth county record) Early north (median 10/6) 10/13 St. Louis (adult thayeri, Superior Entry) PHS, 10/17 St. Louis (adult thayeri, Port Terminal) PHS, (thayeri, Superior Entry) MLH. Early south (median 10/5) 11/12 Hennepin (adult thayeri, Lake Harriet) FFa, m.ob., 11/14 Dakota (thayeri, Fort Snelling S.P.) MwT, 11/15 Dakota (2, SET-Empire mulch site: 1 first-cycle, 1 adult) MwT, Hennepin (thayeri, Lake Harriet) FFa. High counts 10/31 St. Louis (5, Superior Entry) NSg, 11/1 St. Louis (5, Superior Entry: 2 adults, 3 first cycle, all thayeri) ClN, m.ob. No individuals were reported as L.g. kumlieni, but many observations were not submitted at the subspecies level.
	avian information	2020-11-23			Lyon	11/23 Lyon (fifth county record) Early north (median 10/6) 10/13 St. Louis (adult thayeri, Superior Entry) PHS, 10/17 St. Louis (adult thayeri, Port Terminal) PHS, (thayeri, Superior Entry) MLH. Early south (median 10/5) 11/12 Hennepin (adult thayeri, Lake Harriet) FFa, m.ob., 11/14 Dakota (thayeri, Fort Snelling S.P.) MwT, 11/15 Dakota (2, SET-Empire mulch site: 1 first-cycle, 1 adult) MwT, Hennepin (thayeri, Lake Harriet) FFa. High counts 10/31 St. Louis (5, Superior Entry) NSg, 11/1 St. Louis (5, Superior Entry: 2 adults, 3 first cycle, all thayeri) ClN, m.ob. No individuals were reported as L.g. kumlieni, but many observations were not submitted at the subspecies level.
	avian information	2021-03-22	2021-03-23		Jackson	3/22, 23 Jackson (third county record) All south 3/21 Hennepin (L. g. thayeri, Old Cedar Ave. Bridge) JKu, ebd, 3/22–23 Jackson (2 thayeri, one first-cycle and one second-cycle, South Heron Lake) ASu, KEm, 3/25 Ramsey (thayeri, Vadnais Lake) LiH, 3/26 Dakota (adult thayeri, Lake Byllesby) NiR, (Spring Lake P.R.) MwT, 3/26–27, 4/11–12 Lyon (first-cycle thayeri, reported from both Black Rush Lake W.P.A. and Lake Yankton) REn, RLF, NMe, GWe, 4/15 Wright (Pelican Lake) ToL, m.ob. Overwintered north in St. Louis, but with no reports of more than one individual during the spring season; reports of first-cycle thayeri from various locations through 5/29 (St. Louis Bay) PHS, m.ob. Only one report of L. g. kumlieni, first-cycle 4/12 (St. Louis Bay) PHS.
	avian information	2021-03-26	2021-04-12		Lyon	3/26, 27, 4/11-12 Lyon (sixth spring record) All south 3/21 Hennepin (L. g. thayeri, Old Cedar Ave. Bridge) JKu, ebd, 3/22–23 Jackson (2 thayeri, one first-cycle and one second-cycle, South Heron Lake) ASu, KEm, 3/25 Ramsey (thayeri, Vadnais Lake) LiH, 3/26 Dakota (adult thayeri, Lake Byllesby) NiR, (Spring Lake P.R.) MwT, 3/26–27, 4/11–12 Lyon (first-cycle thayeri, reported from both Black Rush Lake W.P.A. and Lake Yankton) REn, RLF, NMe, GWe, 4/15 Wright (Pelican Lake) ToL, m.ob. Overwintered north in St. Louis, but with no reports of more than one individual during the spring season; reports of first-cycle thayeri from various locations through 5/29 (St. Louis Bay) PHS, m.ob. Only one report of L. g. kumlieni, first-cycle 4/12 (St. Louis Bay) PHS.
	avian information	2021-04-15			Wright	4/15 Wright (first spring record) All south 3/21 Hennepin (L. g. thayeri, Old Cedar Ave. Bridge) JKu, ebd, 3/22–23 Jackson (2 thayeri, one first-cycle and one second-cycle, South Heron Lake) ASu, KEm, 3/25 Ramsey (thayeri, Vadnais Lake) LiH, 3/26 Dakota (adult thayeri, Lake Byllesby) NiR, (Spring Lake P.R.) MwT, 3/26–27, 4/11–12 Lyon (first-cycle thayeri, reported from both Black Rush Lake W.P.A. and Lake Yankton) REn, RLF, NMe, GWe, 4/15 Wright (Pelican Lake) ToL, m.ob. Overwintered north in St. Louis, but with no reports of more than one individual during the spring season; reports of first-cycle thayeri from various locations through 5/29 (St. Louis Bay) PHS, m.ob. Only one report of L. g. kumlieni, first-cycle 4/12 (St. Louis Bay) PHS.
	avian information	2021-12-01			Carver	12/1 Carver (first county record) North reports from the three Lake Superior counties, with single reports from Cook, Lake, and numerous reports throughout the season from St. Louis (Duluth), with high count 1/11 (6, Duluth harbor; all L. g. thayeri) ClN, JDx. Reported from seven south counties in December, including 12/1–2 Carver (Lake Waconia) TWe, with high counts 12/19, 12/31 Ramsey (6, St. Paul, Lower Landing Park) EzH, IsH, LiH. Lingered into January Ramsey (1–2, Lower Landing Park) m.ob., and last reported 1/14 DnS. Most birds statewide were identified as or presumed to be the Thayer’s subspecies (L. g. thayeri). Kumlien’s subspecies (L. g. kumlieni) north reports included single individuals from Cook and Lake, and six reports from St. Louis (all singles, Duluth). Kumlien’s reports in the south include: 12/4 Hennepin (Bush Lake) KEm, 12/4–5 Ramsey (second-cycle, Pigs Eye Lake) LiH, APi, ELC, RMD, 12/23 Dakota (adult, Black Dog Lake) BAF, 12/28–30 Ramsey (adult, Lower Landing Park) ArM, MaS. CBC high counts 12/18 Duluth (6), St. Paul (North) (4).
	avian information	2021-12-01			Sherburne	12/1 Sherburne (fifth county record) North reports from the three Lake Superior counties, with single reports from Cook, Lake, and numerous reports throughout the season from St. Louis (Duluth), with high count 1/11 (6, Duluth harbor; all L. g. thayeri) ClN, JDx. Reported from seven south counties in December, including 12/1–2 Carver (Lake Waconia) TWe, with high counts 12/19, 12/31 Ramsey (6, St. Paul, Lower Landing Park) EzH, IsH, LiH. Lingered into January Ramsey (1–2, Lower Landing Park) m.ob., and last reported 1/14 DnS. Most birds statewide were identified as or presumed to be the Thayer’s subspecies (L. g. thayeri). Kumlien’s subspecies (L. g. kumlieni) north reports included single individuals from Cook and Lake, and six reports from St. Louis (all singles, Duluth). Kumlien’s reports in the south include: 12/4 Hennepin (Bush Lake) KEm, 12/4–5 Ramsey (second-cycle, Pigs Eye Lake) LiH, APi, ELC, RMD, 12/23 Dakota (adult, Black Dog Lake) BAF, 12/28–30 Ramsey (adult, Lower Landing Park) ArM, MaS. CBC high counts 12/18 Duluth (6), St. Paul (North) (4).
	avian information	2022-03-07			Cook	3/7 Cook (first county record) Early south 3/19 Hennepin ebd, 3/21–24 Dakota (max. 2, first-cycle L.g. kumlieni and L.g. thayeri of unspecified age) MwT, BDo, 3/24 Wabasha (thayeri) PEJ. High count 4/4 Hennepin (3, Gray’s Bay Causeway Park, report included no details) ebd. Late south 4/17 Dakota (Lake Byllesby) MwT, 4/21 Dakota (first-cycle, thayeri, Dakota Woods Dog Park) MwT, Lyon (first-cycle, Black Rush Lake W.P.A.) RJS. Overwintered north in Cook and St. Louis, with reports continuing until 3/7 Cook (first-cycle, Grand Marais) EHi and 5/15 St. Louis (2, Park Point R.A.) ebd, respectively. One additional north report 4/24 Kanabec (first-cycle, thayeri) ph. SPS.
	avian information	2022-03-24	2022-04-01		Wabasha	3/24, 4/1 Wabasha (fourth spring record) Early south 3/19 Hennepin ebd, 3/21–24 Dakota (max. 2, first-cycle L.g. kumlieni and L.g. thayeri of unspecified age) MwT, BDo, 3/24 Wabasha (thayeri) PEJ. High count 4/4 Hennepin (3, Gray’s Bay Causeway Park, report included no details) ebd. Late south 4/17 Dakota (Lake Byllesby) MwT, 4/21 Dakota (first-cycle, thayeri, Dakota Woods Dog Park) MwT, Lyon (first-cycle, Black Rush Lake W.P.A.) RJS. Overwintered north in Cook and St. Louis, with reports continuing until 3/7 Cook (first-cycle, Grand Marais) EHi and 5/15 St. Louis (2, Park Point R.A.) ebd, respectively. One additional north report 4/24 Kanabec (first-cycle, thayeri) ph. SPS.
	avian information	2022-04-01			Blue Earth	4/1 Blue Earth (third spring record) Early south 3/19 Hennepin ebd, 3/21–24 Dakota (max. 2, first-cycle L.g. kumlieni and L.g. thayeri of unspecified age) MwT, BDo, 3/24 Wabasha (thayeri) PEJ. High count 4/4 Hennepin (3, Gray’s Bay Causeway Park, report included no details) ebd. Late south 4/17 Dakota (Lake Byllesby) MwT, 4/21 Dakota (first-cycle, thayeri, Dakota Woods Dog Park) MwT, Lyon (first-cycle, Black Rush Lake W.P.A.) RJS. Overwintered north in Cook and St. Louis, with reports continuing until 3/7 Cook (first-cycle, Grand Marais) EHi and 5/15 St. Louis (2, Park Point R.A.) ebd, respectively. One additional north report 4/24 Kanabec (first-cycle, thayeri) ph. SPS.
	avian information	2022-04-21			Lyon	4/21 Lyon (seventh spring record) Early south 3/19 Hennepin ebd, 3/21–24 Dakota (max. 2, first-cycle L.g. kumlieni and L.g. thayeri of unspecified age) MwT, BDo, 3/24 Wabasha (thayeri) PEJ. High count 4/4 Hennepin (3, Gray’s Bay Causeway Park, report included no details) ebd. Late south 4/17 Dakota (Lake Byllesby) MwT, 4/21 Dakota (first-cycle, thayeri, Dakota Woods Dog Park) MwT, Lyon (first-cycle, Black Rush Lake W.P.A.) RJS. Overwintered north in Cook and St. Louis, with reports continuing until 3/7 Cook (first-cycle, Grand Marais) EHi and 5/15 St. Louis (2, Park Point R.A.) ebd, respectively. One additional north report 4/24 Kanabec (first-cycle, thayeri) ph. SPS.
	avian information	2022-04-24			Kanabec	4/24 Kanabec (third county record) Early south 3/19 Hennepin ebd, 3/21–24 Dakota (max. 2, first-cycle L.g. kumlieni and L.g. thayeri of unspecified age) MwT, BDo, 3/24 Wabasha (thayeri) PEJ. High count 4/4 Hennepin (3, Gray’s Bay Causeway Park, report included no details) ebd. Late south 4/17 Dakota (Lake Byllesby) MwT, 4/21 Dakota (first-cycle, thayeri, Dakota Woods Dog Park) MwT, Lyon (first-cycle, Black Rush Lake W.P.A.) RJS. Overwintered north in Cook and St. Louis, with reports continuing until 3/7 Cook (first-cycle, Grand Marais) EHi and 5/15 St. Louis (2, Park Point R.A.) ebd, respectively. One additional north report 4/24 Kanabec (first-cycle, thayeri) ph. SPS.
	avian information	2022-10-23	2022-10-24		Hubbard	10/23, 24 Hubbard (first county record) Early north (median 10/6) 9/26 St. Louis (adult thayeri, Garfield Ave.) KDx, ClN, 10/16 St. Louis (adult thayeri, Superior Entry) GWe, 10/19–25 Hubbard (first-cycle thayeri, Kabekona Lake) AxB, REn, m.ob. All south 10/16 Dakota (2, thayeri, SET-Empire mulch site) AnB, TPu, MwT, 11/13 Dakota (3, thayeri, SET-Empire mulch site) AnB, 11/16 Ramsey (adult thayeri, Lake Owasso) LiH, 11/18 Hennepin (thayeri, Lake Harriet) DWK, SKe, 11/21–22 Ramsey (adult thayeri, Lake Johanna) LiH, 11/24 Hennepin (thayeri, Lake Harriet) MZa, ebd, 11/27 Wabasha (adult kumlieni, Lake Pepin) PEJ, 11/30 Goodhue (first-cycle thayeri, Lake Pepin) PEJ, Wabasha (Lake Pepin) BLz. High count 11/13 St. Louis (8, Superior Entry: 5 adults, 2 first-cycle, and 1 second-cycle, all thayeri) ClN, m.ob. Additional reports of L.g. kumlieni: 11/8 St. Louis (Lakewood Pumping Station) SeM, 11/18–27 Lake (first-cycle, Two Harbors) TPu, m.ob., 11/20 St. Louis (Superior Entry) LiH.
	avian information	2023-03-04	2023-03-07		Cook	3/4, 7 Cook (second spring record) All south 3/7 Dakota (L. g. thayeri, Spring Lake P.R.) KCl, 3/24 Dakota (Hastings) ALw, 3/30 Dakota (second-cycle, Spring Lake) MJB, (thayeri, C.R. 46) MwT, AnB, 4/6–7 Hennepin (Old Cedar Ave. Bridge) ebd, 4/7 Washington (thayeri, immature, Point Douglas Park) BDo, 4/30–5/1 Stearns (L. g. kumlieni, first-cycle, Farming Twp.) †PCC, m.ob. Overwintered north along Lake Superior, with reports continuing until 5/10 St. Louis (kumlieni, Park Point R.A.) JWL. High counts 3/1 St. Louis (3, two noted as immature, W.L.S.S.D.) FJN, ebd, 3/3 St. Louis (3, two adults and one second-cycle, at least two reported as kumlieni, W.L.S.S.D.) ebd. Additional reports of kumlieni: 3/11 St. Louis (W.L.S.S.D.) SeM, 3/26 Lake (adult, Agate Bay) JWL, 5/9 Lake (immature, Two Harbors) JWL.
	avian information	2023-10-14	2023-11-23		Lyon	10/14, 25, 11/9, 18, 22, 23 Lyon
	avian information	2023-11-09	2023-11-29		Goodhue	11/9, 29 Goodhue (third county record)

	Rare migrant and winter visitant.

Notes:

The information in the above table comes from several different sources. The count in column 1 indicates which of the sources is considered the primary source.
	'Accepted' MOURC entries from The MOURC Proceedings
	'Not Accepted' or 'Rejected' MOURC entry from The MOURC Proceedings
	Accepted MOU records assembled by David Cahlander
	Sighting records for ()
	Avian information from the occurrence maps, in dark red, assembled by Robert Janssen. Seasonal report for the species/season published in The Loon or The Flicker has been added.
	Information from The Loon index assembled by Anthony Hertzel and David Cahlander