[mou] In defense of the "Big Guys"
LEO LAURIE LANTZ
lanl1965@msn.com
Sat, 25 Feb 2006 09:59:08 -0600
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Derek: I was banned for accidentally sending a political satire with no =
offensive words or images to the MOU net-serve.It was after the 2004 =
elections.It was meant to be sent to MOM which was right next to MOU in =
my address book(my bad for hitting the wrong button).I didn't know what =
I did and immediately started getting many ,many emails from MOU members =
which contained "F" words in combinations I had never heard before and =
will surely never forget.
A kind MOU member named Lisa Koch sent me an e-mail stating what had =
happened and that "any rational member of the list would surely see the =
post as a mistake,but in order that you don't receive hundreds of 'hate =
mails' just send an explaination of what happened to the list so people =
will be aware"
Until Lisa sent me this friendly message I was under the assumption that =
my computer was corrupted from some sort of virus and the most vitrolic =
messages were from addresses which contained 'umn.edu' addresses.
After sending my apology,I continued to receive hate mails for over 2 =
weeks.I really have enjoyed this list-serve,but to be honest after this =
situation it really de-flated my impression of the Mou.
Also it should be noted that if it wasn't for the kind intervention of =
Mrs.Koch or Mr.Hendrickson ,neither of whom I'd ever met,I wouldn't have =
known what I had done.
What's even funnier ,or sadder, is my personal views are that of a =
middle of the road democrat with a bit more leaning towards =
conservatism.My political idol is Mr.Collin Peterson from MN 7th =
district I believe.Yet I was assummed by most,which was very =
disturbing,especially after I had publically and honestly explained the =
situation on the MOU-listserve more than once,that I was a cross between =
Ed Meese and Attilla the Hun.
I was banned from the MOU list and found this out after trying to post =
several birding messages.I would receive an automated response stating I =
was explicitly banned and would need to contact the list moderator.I =
didn't even know why I was banned.Everytime I received this message I =
would send a reply asking why I was banned and for 2 years never =
received an explanatory response,even though I've been an Mou member for =
4 years.
Then one week age I was looking at Mr Henrickson's website and saw the =
listing for pelagic birding trips on L.Superior.To make a long story =
shorter,I told Mr Henrickson that I wasn't going to renew my MOU family =
membership and told him why,thinking I would not be able to participate =
on the trip which I believed to be exclusive to MOU members.
This is when Mike got involved and contacted the MOU.Mike is a guy that =
is politically incorrect and says what he thinks,and these days this =
approach,although honest and commendible in my humble opinion,is not =
adviseable in these "politically - correct" times.Immediateately,after =
his post,I recevied a call from the Mou stating my post priviledges had =
been reinstated the previous week although I had not been notified and =
thus did not know this.Apparently they were reinstated after I attempted =
to reply to an MOU post re; how to save the boreal forest by opting out =
of all the excess mailings sent to everyone from catologs to credit =
applications.I did this and wanted tho let Mou members know about how it =
went,ie it was easy to opt out of credit applications ,but another =
company diverts callers to a '900" number and tries to charge you $9.95 =
even though they have an "800" number listed and when you call AOL they =
deny any responsibility for sending all those unwanted AOL disks and =
refer you to the US Postal Service.When I attempted to post this again I =
was denied.
So this whole siily situation errupted when dumb me pushed a wrong =
button in an attempt to illustrate to my Rep. parents that all =
candidates are not what they seem and that I could take a joke relating =
to a previous e-mail sent to me.This set off a fury of responses to me =
assumming that I wanted to log the boreal forest and start shooting =
Ivory Billed-Woodpeckers & Kirtland's Warblers. =20
For the record I am a beady-eyed,skinny necked geek with a bad back and =
enlarged prostate who has had to walk around with the moniker of 'leo' =
my whole life(read only 3 letters and spelled exactly as it sounds)as my =
parents must have realized by day one I would never be able to spell a =
name such as 'John' as the silent 'h' would be too much for me,not to =
mention having to memorize 4 letters.
I enjoy the smell of cow-manure and leather,love birding,am against the =
war in Iraq,driving over 55mph and every single environmental policy =
pushed by the current administration so far.I really admire =
Mr.Hendrickson's notifications about the logging of the SAX-Zim Bog and =
the personal phone call from Mr.Alt telling me I had my posting =
privledges reinstated.
This is the last time I will bore everyone with this topic but simply =
felt the need to clear the air honestly.
ps.-I appologize for the multitude of spelling errors because as you all =
know by now,I'm just not very smart.
Peace out,
L.James Lantz
From: Derek<mailto:dobak@comcast.net>=20
To: mou-net@cbs.umn.edu<mailto:mou-net@cbs.umn.edu>=20
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 1:26 AM
Subject: [mou] In defense of the "Big Guys"
I was not going to get involved in this drama because I don't know=20
either Mike Hendrickson or Mark Alt and it is unlikely that anyone =
here=20
knows me. However, the recent blanket criticism of so called "big=20
guys" does disturb me and I feel that I need to offer a dissenting=20
viewpoint.
I just started birding last July and joined MOU in August. I have=20
found them to be a great organization (run by volunteers) and MOU-net=20
has been a great source of information for me while I continue to=20
learn. I haven't even experienced a spring migration yet.
First, while I am sure that there is a small minority of birders who=20
feel elite, most of the people who post here regularly are more than=20
willing to help out in any way possible. I feel that the gulf between =
experienced birders and newcomers is a big problem and name calling is =
only going to make that worse. I know many people are concerned about =
field trips not attracting enough attention and having to be canceled. =
=20
This is probably partly due to many people having the impression that=20
they would be out of place and unwelcome with a big group of "big=20
guys". That impression is incorrect but it does exist and MOU needs =
to=20
find some way to address it. The first field trip (tour) I went on =
was=20
with two birders who have both seen over 300 species in MN. At the=20
time I had a life list of about 40 species (all common birds). It was =
a great time and I learned a lot.
Back in January I posted some information about the Peregrine Falcons=20
in St. Paul. Not rare birds, not uncommon birds, old news - right?. =20
Not to the many "big guys" who took the time to find and send me=20
(unsolicited) information and links with the history of these birds =
and=20
offers to possibly help with banding them. I was thrilled.
Second, if someone posts a sighting of a rare bird, they need to=20
remember that that sighting is likely to cause dozens of people to =
plan=20
a trip or take time off to go see that bird. If you are wrong, then a =
lot of people might be unhappy, lose faith in the sightings posted=20
here, and be even more skeptical of sightings from people they don't=20
recognize. If you post a sighting of a rare bird you need to expect=20
some skepticism and should welcome it.
Finally, I think that this whole situation has been an unfortunate=20
example of speaking up too quickly. I am assuming that Mr. Lantz was=20
banned because he made a post that was found offensive by some people=20
and since he was unknown to the MOU-net administrators, was rightfully =
banned. This could've been easily cleared up with a "private" phone=20
call or email. Instead, it was made public, threats were made, and =
the=20
dirty laundry is hanging in the wind for everyone to see. While I =
have=20
no doubt that Mike Hendrickson is a dedicated birder and a nice person =
who would love to share his experiences and knowledge with people, I=20
feel that he made a serious error in publicly threatening to quit over =
what was a small and easily fixable problem. It was handled by Mr. =
Alt=20
and the MOU board as it should've been - privately, decisively, and=20
correctly.
Derek Bakken
St. Paul, MN
_______________________________________________
mou-net mailing list
mou-net@cbs.umn.edu<mailto:mou-net@cbs.umn.edu>
=
http://cbs.umn.edu/mailman/listinfo/mou-net<http://cbs.umn.edu/mailman/li=
stinfo/mou-net>
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<DIV>
<DIV>Derek: I was banned for accidentally sending a political satire =
with no=20
offensive words or images to the MOU net-serve.It was after the 2004=20
elections.It was meant to be sent to MOM which was right next to MOU in =
my=20
address book(my bad for hitting the wrong button).I didn't know what I =
did and=20
immediately started getting many ,many emails from MOU members which =
contained=20
"F" words in combinations I had never heard before and will surely never =
forget.</DIV>
<DIV>A kind MOU member named Lisa Koch sent me an e-mail stating what =
had=20
happened and that "any rational member of the list would surely see the =
post as=20
a mistake,but in order that you don't receive hundreds of 'hate mails' =
just send=20
an explaination of what happened to the list so people will be =
aware"</DIV>
<DIV>Until Lisa sent me this friendly message I was under the assumption =
that my=20
computer was corrupted from some sort of virus and the most vitrolic =
messages=20
were from addresses which contained 'umn.edu' =
addresses.</DIV>
<DIV>After sending my apology,I continued to receive hate mails for over =
2=20
weeks.I really have enjoyed this list-serve,but to be honest after this=20
situation it really de-flated my impression of the Mou.</DIV>
<DIV>Also it should be noted that if it wasn't for the kind intervention =
of=20
Mrs.Koch or Mr.Hendrickson ,neither of whom I'd ever met,I wouldn't have =
known=20
what I had done.</DIV>
<DIV>What's even funnier ,or sadder, is my personal views are that =
of=20
a middle of the road democrat with a bit more leaning towards=20
conservatism.My political idol is Mr.Collin Peterson from MN 7th =
district I=20
believe.Yet I was assummed by most,which was very disturbing,especially =
after I=20
had publically and honestly explained the situation on the =
MOU-listserve=20
more than once,that I was a cross between Ed Meese and Attilla the =
Hun.</DIV>
<DIV>I was banned from the MOU list and found this out after trying to =
post=20
several birding messages.I would receive an automated response =
stating I=20
was explicitly banned and would need to contact the list moderator.I =
didn't even=20
know why I was banned.Everytime I received this message I would send a =
reply=20
asking why I was banned and for 2 years never received an explanatory=20
response,even though I've been an Mou member for 4 years.</DIV>
<DIV>Then one week age I was looking at Mr Henrickson's website and saw =
the=20
listing for pelagic birding trips on L.Superior.To make a long =
story=20
shorter,I told Mr Henrickson that I wasn't going to renew my MOU family=20
membership and told him why,thinking I would not be able to =
participate on=20
the trip which I believed to be exclusive to MOU =
members.</DIV>
<DIV>This is when Mike got involved and contacted the MOU.Mike is a guy =
that is=20
politically incorrect and says what he thinks,and these days this=20
approach,although honest and commendible in my humble opinion,is not =
adviseable=20
in these "politically - correct" times.Immediateately,after his =
post,I=20
recevied a call from the Mou stating my post priviledges had been =
reinstated the=20
previous week although I had not been notified and thus did not know=20
this.Apparently they were reinstated after I attempted to reply to an =
MOU post=20
re; how to save the boreal forest by opting out of all the excess =
mailings=20
sent to everyone from catologs to credit applications.I did this and =
wanted tho=20
let Mou members know about how it went,ie it was easy to opt out of =
credit=20
applications ,but another company diverts callers to a '900" number and =
tries to=20
charge you $9.95 even though they have an "800" number listed and when =
you call=20
AOL they deny any responsibility for sending all those unwanted AOL =
disks and=20
refer you to the US Postal Service.When I attempted to post this again I =
was=20
denied.</DIV>
<DIV>So this whole siily situation errupted when dumb me pushed a wrong =
button=20
in an attempt to illustrate to my Rep. parents that all candidates are =
not what=20
they seem and that I could take a joke relating to a previous =
e-mail sent=20
to me.This set off a fury of responses to me assumming that I wanted to =
log the=20
boreal forest and start shooting Ivory Billed-Woodpeckers & =
Kirtland's=20
Warblers. </DIV>
<DIV>For the record I am a beady-eyed,skinny necked geek with a bad back =
and=20
enlarged prostate who has had to walk around with the moniker of 'leo' =
my whole=20
life(read only 3 letters and spelled exactly as it sounds)as my parents =
must=20
have realized by day one I would never be able to spell a name such as =
'John' as=20
the silent 'h' would be too much for me,not to mention having to =
memorize 4=20
letters.</DIV>
<DIV>I enjoy the smell of cow-manure and leather,love birding,am against =
the war=20
in Iraq,driving over 55mph and every single environmental policy pushed =
by the=20
current administration so far.I really admire Mr.Hendrickson's =
notifications=20
about the logging of the SAX-Zim Bog and the personal phone call from =
Mr.Alt=20
telling me I had my posting privledges reinstated.</DIV>
<DIV>This is the last time I will bore everyone with this topic but =
simply felt=20
the need to clear the air honestly.</DIV>
<DIV>ps.-I appologize for the multitude of spelling errors because as =
you all=20
know by now,I'm just not very smart.</DIV>
<DIV>Peace out,</DIV>
<DIV>L.James Lantz</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A =
title=3Dmailto:dobak@comcast.net=20
href=3D"mailto:dobak@comcast.net">Derek</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dmailto:mou-net@cbs.umn.edu=20
href=3D"mailto:mou-net@cbs.umn.edu">mou-net@cbs.umn.edu</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 25, =
2006 1:26=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [mou] In defense of =
the "Big=20
Guys"</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I was not going to get involved in this drama =
because I=20
don't know <BR>either Mike Hendrickson or Mark Alt and it is unlikely =
that=20
anyone here <BR>knows me. However, the recent blanket criticism =
of =20
so called "big <BR>guys" does disturb me and I feel that I need to =
offer a=20
dissenting <BR>viewpoint.<BR><BR>I just started birding last July and =
joined=20
MOU in August. I have <BR>found them to be a great organization =
(run by=20
volunteers) and MOU-net <BR>has been a great source of information for =
me=20
while I continue to <BR>learn. I haven't even experienced a =
spring=20
migration yet.<BR><BR>First, while I am sure that there is a small =
minority of=20
birders who <BR>feel elite, most of the people who post here regularly =
are=20
more than <BR>willing to help out in any way possible. I feel =
that the=20
gulf between <BR>experienced birders and newcomers is a big problem =
and name=20
calling is <BR>only going to make that worse. I know many people =
are=20
concerned about <BR>field trips not attracting enough attention and =
having to=20
be canceled. <BR>This is probably partly due to many people =
having the=20
impression that <BR>they would be out of place and unwelcome with a =
big group=20
of "big <BR>guys". That impression is incorrect but it does =
exist and=20
MOU needs to <BR>find some way to address it. The first field =
trip=20
(tour) I went on was <BR>with two birders who have both seen over 300 =
species=20
in MN. At the <BR>time I had a life list of about 40 species =
(all common=20
birds). It was <BR>a great time and I learned a lot.<BR><BR>Back =
in=20
January I posted some information about the Peregrine Falcons <BR>in =
St.=20
Paul. Not rare birds, not uncommon birds, old news - =
right?. =20
<BR>Not to the many "big guys" who took the time to find and send me=20
<BR>(unsolicited) information and links with the history of these =
birds and=20
<BR>offers to possibly help with banding them. I was=20
thrilled.<BR><BR>Second, if someone posts a sighting of a rare bird, =
they need=20
to <BR>remember that that sighting is likely to cause dozens of people =
to plan=20
<BR>a trip or take time off to go see that bird. If you are =
wrong, then=20
a <BR>lot of people might be unhappy, lose faith in the sightings =
posted=20
<BR>here, and be even more skeptical of sightings from people they =
don't=20
<BR>recognize. If you post a sighting of a rare bird you need to =
expect=20
<BR>some skepticism and should welcome it.<BR><BR>Finally, I think =
that this=20
whole situation has been an unfortunate <BR>example of speaking up too =
quickly. I am assuming that Mr. Lantz was <BR>banned because he =
made a=20
post that was found offensive by some people <BR>and since he was =
unknown to=20
the MOU-net administrators, was rightfully <BR>banned. This =
could've=20
been easily cleared up with a "private" phone <BR>call or email. =
Instead, it was made public, threats were made, and the <BR>dirty =
laundry is=20
hanging in the wind for everyone to see. While I have <BR>no =
doubt that=20
Mike Hendrickson is a dedicated birder and a nice person <BR>who would =
love to=20
share his experiences and knowledge with people, I <BR>feel that he =
made a=20
serious error in publicly threatening to quit over <BR>what was a =
small and=20
easily fixable problem. It was handled by Mr. Alt <BR>and the =
MOU board=20
as it should've been - privately, decisively, and=20
<BR>correctly.<BR><BR><BR>Derek Bakken<BR>St. Paul,=20
MN<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>mou-net =
mailing=20
list<BR><A title=3Dmailto:mou-net@cbs.umn.edu=20
href=3D"mailto:mou-net@cbs.umn.edu">mou-net@cbs.umn.edu</A><BR><A=20
title=3Dhttp://cbs.umn.edu/mailman/listinfo/mou-net=20
=
href=3D"http://cbs.umn.edu/mailman/listinfo/mou-net">http://cbs.umn.edu/m=
ailman/listinfo/mou-net</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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