[mou] MOU membership

[Larry Sirvio]

Well said Mike -
Now, how about everyone else just ignore Richard's rants. If he has no 
forum.......
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michael Hendrickson
  To: Richard Wood ; mnbird ; Mou-net
  Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:43 AM
  Subject: Re: [mou] MOU membership



  Richard Wood <rwoodphd at yahoo.com> wrote:
    Hi all,

    I want to thank Steve for his answer to my question about why I (or 
anyone, for that matter) should join the MOU.

    That being said, even though I consider myself to be a serious birder, 
I'm not sure if the MOU is an organization I would join, mostly for 
financial reasons.

    Richard you have the money remember you have a PH.D! LOL

    At this time, all I really need from the MOU is access to its web site, 
which I can, and am doing, for free.  I don't have any bird projects that 
require grants (I would think that one wouldn't need to be a member of an 
organization to get grant money from it), nor do I agree with how data is 
collected per the records process (should one support a process that is done 
in a way they disagree with?), and the paper session, I could probably live 
without that (I'm more interested in my own papers that I have to write as 
well as those of others in my field).  One also need not be a member of the 
vehicle of a group in order to be able to associate with that group.  I've 
met quite a few birders on my outings and found them to be very nice; the 
fact that they or I are or were MOU members had nothing to do with our 
interaction.

    Richard please do not join the MOU!

    I don't want it to sound like I am "dissing" the MOU, because I am not. 
I'm just saying that at this time, my dollar is already stretch so thin that 
it's transparent, so I really need to justify what I put my money into, and 
at this time, I wouldn't be getting enough back on my investment if I was to 
join the MOU.

    Richard you have dissed the MOU!

    Someone wrote me last night and suggested that I "get better acquainted 
with the MOU Records Committee".  I'm curious as to why I should do that. 
I'm sure that they probably wouldn't want to deal with me. knowing that I am 
not fully 100% behind the way that they do their "job".  It was also 
mentioned to me that "clearly you are not a biological scientist".  No, I'm 
not, but there is a process that a scientist goes through in the name of 
gathering data, which should be the same, whether one is a chemist, 
physicist or biologist, and that is, you gather the data, draw your 
conclusions, based on the data, and then publish to a "peer-reviewed" 
journal.  During this process, none of your data falls by the wayside, even 
if it's so bad that it doesn't fit your hypothesis.

    The hobby of birdwatching doesn't need scientists like yourself.  We are 
doing just fine without you.

    Shouldn't birding be like that?  As it stands now, there is a person 
that will look at the results of CBC's and will "throw out" observations 
that that person deems to have not happened; kind of like the times I used 
to report seeing Baltimore Orioles in San Antonio, TX during migration to 
ebird, and someone there would write back to me and tell me that I didn't 
see Baltimore Orioles, when in fact, we did.  This happened on several 
occasions.
    This may not bother many (if any) of you, but to me there is something 
so wrong in all of this that, to me, it almost borders on scientific 
misconduct, the fact that one can do an "experiment", using us as data 
collectors, and throw out any of our observations, on nothing more than a 
whim. and say I didn't give them enough "evidence".  Heck, one gentleman 
that I know of submitted the pages from his notebook as part of his report 
and they said, "you didn't see that...".  Good grief.

    Richard on one of your records you submitted to the Utah records 
committee along with photo of the hummingbird, well it was turned down 
because the "high priests" of birding determine it was another species of 
hummingbird that is common to see in the state plus a author of a very well 
known hummingbird guide (woman) agreed with the Utah records committee!!  I 
know- I know you are a scientists with a PH.D and anytime you say you 
something unusual we MUST believe in you and your experience as a birder! 
Well Richard I did a lot of research on you and you made several ID mistakes 
you either posted on some listserv and if anyone disagrees with you and 
offers other possibilities you lose it!
    Richard as long as you live in Minnesota I will not believe in any rare, 
casual, out of range or season bird species you spot and then share on this 
listserv.  I never met anyone like yourself! You move to Minnesota, you join 
the MOU-listserv and before you really had a chance to understand the MOU 
you bashed the organization, the people on the records committee, you bashed 
some people on this listserv, you labeled local bird experts as "high 
priests of birding" and you did all this in less than 3 1/2 months of living 
in Minnesota! Congrats Richard!!
    I already contacted someone on the MOU-listserv and hopefully with my 
input they will put you on the moderator's list so they can moderate your 
rants against the MOU, MOURC and others like myself. You have a long history 
of doing this in New York, Virginia, Texas, Utah and Maryland listservs!  I 
know I know Richard it wasn't your fault you were only "questioning" them!

    If you hate the MOU so much why not join the Minnesota Bird 
Conservation? You will fit right in!

    Mike H.


    But I digress...

    Good birding,
    Richard



    Richard L. Wood, Ph. D.
    Hastings, MN
    rwoodphd at yahoo.com



    ----- Original Message ----
    From: Steve Weston <sweston2 at comcast.net>
    To: mnbird <mnbird at lists.mnbird.net>; Mou-net <mou-net at moumn.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:09:26 AM
    Subject: [mou] MOU membership


    Recently the question came up on why should someone join the Minnesota 
Ornithologist's Union.  I joined after I became what I considered to be a 
serious birder.  Here are some of the reasons why I continue to be a member.

    1)  It is the state organization of birders and as such, it is an group 
that I feel part of and want to associate with.

    2)  I joined so I could start receiving "The Loon" publication, which I 
read as soon as it arrives.

    3)  I enjoy the paper session in December which I attend every year.

    4)  Look at the website: http://moumn.org/ .  There ain't nothing like 
it in any of the other states.  I especially like the occurrence maps
    (http://moumn.org/cgi-bin/occurrence.pl?group=ducks&season=all ).  When 
Tony Lau asked about Red-breasted Nuthatches in the summer in Wright County, 
I checked the maps.  He definitely is living on the edge of its range.  I 
found it interesting that there is a breeding record for Dakota County, but 
no summer reports.  I use the maps all the time.  There is nothing like this 
on any other state organization website.

    5)  Something that I appreciate is the support that MOU provides for 
Christmas Bird Counts.  I use the list every year to help plan my schedule.

    6)  The MOU provides grants for bird projects.  I am interested in 
whether the nesting platforms for the Common Nighthawks will have an impact.

    7)  They are the keepers of the data on what birds are being seen where 
in the state.

    Yeah, you could report the birds you saw and use the website for free. 
But, I prefer to support the website, and the data collection, and the 
publication of the Loon, and the grants, and the organization that puts them 
together.  Thank you MOU people.

    Steve Weston






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