[mou] listing game
Jeff Stephenson
stephensonjeff@charter.net
Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:15:15 -0600
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I will admit from the start that I am an avid bird lister. I enjoy =
trying to maximize how many species I can see in North America, =
Minnesota, each of its counties, how many I can see in one day in each =
of the counties, how many I can see in my yard, and on and on. Part of =
the listing pleasure is to compare my result with other birders. To make =
this comparison useful it should be assumed that each birder used the =
same rule set. Mike mentions below that each person listing can choose =
to play by the rules or not and that it's a personal choice. He is =
correct. However, I would like to make the case for playing by the =
rules. If a golfer plays 9 holes of golf and reports a score, most =
people would assume they played by the rules of golf. If they didn't =
then they are simply misreporting what their golfing skill really is. =
This may impress the naive but in the end the non-rule player is only =
kidding themselves. If I bird with someone and I realize they ignore the =
listing rules then it means that all of their listing records are =
suspect in my mind. So I tend to ignore what they report since it has no =
meaning. My recommendation to the beginning lister is DON'T break the =
rules. If you start adding birds to your list that shouldn't be there =
and then later after you've gained some experience you decide to follow =
the rules. All you previous listing is contaminated unless you can go =
back and remove the rulebreaking species. You will regret having started =
off in such a manner.
Jeff Stephenson
Home phone: 507 289 7635
Cell phone: 507 254 8194
email: stephensonjeff@charter.net
web page: www.geocities.com/jjeffstephenson
Rochester Mn, 55902, Olmsted County
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Michael Hendrickson=20
To: MOU=20
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 4:59 PM
Subject: [mou] Costa/listing game
Hello:
Well I am certainly not a listing police guy but I have some answers to =
anyone who plays the listing game and regards to the Costa Hummingbird.
This was taken out of the listing supplement. Also remember when you =
play the listing game you can follow the rules or you can choose not to. =
Its all a personal choice and NO one will attack you for not doing =
either. So IF you play the listing game here are the rules from the =
listing supplement.
This quote is taken directly from the MOU Listing Supplement rules:
"The bird must be alive, wild, and unrestrained when observed.
Netted or trapped birds are not countable while in captivity and a =
bird
is considered still under the influence of captivity after its =
release
until it regains the activities and movements of a bird which had =
not
been captured. A bird is under the influence of captivity during its
initial flight away from its release point and during subsequent
activity reasonably influenced by the captivity, such as initial
perching and preening or early sleeping or roosting near the release
point. A nocturnal species released during daylight which goes to =
roost
near the point of release is considered under the influence of =
captivity
until the next nightfall when it has left its roost and begun normal
nocturnal activities.
OK OK what about the Anna's Hummingbird in Grand Marais or the Anna's in =
the Twin Cities. YES the homeowner put out a shelter heated box and =
added food in thier so the hummingbird can be sort of protected while it =
fed and also a place to roost in if the hummingbird to choose to roost =
in those heated boxes. In all those cases the hummingbird was able to =
freely fly and go about its business outdoors and not under human =
control. The hummer still had to deal with the weather/predators and =
etc.. It was treated no differently than Carolina Wrens coming to heated =
feeders with grubs in it.
In this case the bird was lured into a basement and doors were shut. The =
hummingbird is now in captivity. When birders came to photo the hummer =
it was a captive bird and if those birders wanted to know if they can =
count it They have two options, either go by the listing rules and not =
count the bird but just admired it or go ahead and add the bird to thier =
personal list. Either way its your choice.
Now in my opinion I am sure the hummingbird will be added onto the =
Minnesota Bird List. The hummingbird was seen outdoors on its own coming =
to thier feeder. It wasn't initially ID as a Costa till it was filmed by =
some TV crew and a birder knew its identity when he saw the clip on TV. =
The bird was housed in a basement and was confided and its movement were =
controlled by the homeowner. Its just like that Calliope Hummingbird =
record. The Hummingbird looked like a Calliope but no one was absolutely =
sure until it was mist netted and positive ID was than made. So the =
hummingbird was unidentified, lured in the basement, filmed, and than it =
was identified.=20
So I am fairly certain it will be added to the state list. Again I am =
not speaking for MOURC because I am not a MOURC member I am just giving =
my opinion regarding to adding the bird to the state list. Also remember =
MOURC doesn't govern listing rules/nor creates them or spends time with =
them. They don't care about lists or listing rules.=20
I hope this helps.
Mike Hendrickson
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will admit from the start that I am =
an avid bird=20
lister. I enjoy trying to maximize how many species I can see =
in North=20
America, Minnesota, each of its counties, how many I can see in one day =
in each=20
of the counties, how many I can see in my yard, and on and on. Part of =
the=20
listing pleasure is to compare my result with other birders. To make =
this=20
comparison useful it should be assumed that each birder used the same =
rule set.=20
Mike mentions below that each person listing can choose to play by the =
rules or=20
not and that it's a personal choice. He is correct. However, I would =
like to=20
make the case for playing by the rules. If a golfer plays 9 holes of =
golf and=20
reports a score, most people would assume they played by the rules of =
golf. If=20
they didn't then they are simply misreporting what their golfing skill =
really=20
is. This may impress the naive but in the end the non-rule player is =
only=20
kidding themselves. If I bird with someone and I realize they ignore the =
listing=20
rules then it means that all of their listing records are suspect in my =
mind. So=20
I tend to ignore what they report since it has no meaning. My =
recommendation to=20
the beginning lister is DON'T break the rules. If you start adding birds =
to your=20
list that shouldn't be there and then later after you've gained some =
experience=20
you decide to follow the rules. All you previous listing is contaminated =
unless=20
you can go back and remove the rulebreaking species. You will regret =
having=20
started off in such a manner.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Jeff Stephenson<BR>Home phone: 507 289 7635<BR>Cell=20
phone: 507 254 8194<BR>email: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:stephensonjeff@charter.net">stephensonjeff@charter.net</A>=
<BR>web=20
page: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.geocities.com/jjeffstephenson">www.geocities.com/jjeff=
stephenson</A><BR>Rochester=20
Mn, 55902, Olmsted County</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dsmithville4@charter.net =
href=3D"mailto:smithville4@charter.net">Michael=20
Hendrickson</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3DMOU-net@cbs.umn.edu=20
href=3D"mailto:MOU-net@cbs.umn.edu">MOU</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 08, 2003 4:59 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [mou] Costa/listing game</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well I am certainly not a listing =
police guy but I=20
have some answers to anyone who plays the listing game and regards to =
the Costa=20
Hummingbird.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This was taken out of the listing =
supplement. Also=20
remember when you play the listing game you can follow the rules or you =
can=20
choose not to. Its all a personal choice and NO one will attack =
you for=20
not doing either. So IF you play the listing game here are the rules =
from the=20
listing supplement.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>This quote is taken directly from the MOU Listing Supplement=20
rules:<BR><BR> "The bird must be alive, wild, and =
unrestrained when=20
observed.<BR><BR> Netted or trapped birds are not =
countable=20
while in captivity and a bird<BR> is considered still =
under=20
the influence of captivity after its release<BR> until =
it=20
regains the activities and movements of a bird which had=20
not<BR> been captured. A bird is under the influence =
of=20
captivity during its<BR> initial flight away from its =
release=20
point and during subsequent<BR> activity reasonably =
influenced=20
by the captivity, such as initial<BR> perching and =
preening or=20
early sleeping or roosting near the release<BR> point. =
A=20
nocturnal species released during daylight which goes to=20
roost<BR> near the point of release is considered =
under the=20
influence of captivity<BR> until the next nightfall =
when it=20
has left its roost and begun normal<BR> nocturnal=20
activities.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>OK OK what about the Anna's Hummingbird =
in Grand=20
Marais or the Anna's in the Twin Cities. YES the homeowner put out a =
shelter=20
heated box and added food in thier so the hummingbird can be sort of =
protected=20
while it fed and also a place to roost in if the hummingbird to choose =
to roost=20
in those heated boxes. In all those cases the hummingbird was able to =
freely fly=20
and go about its business outdoors and not under human =
control. The=20
hummer still had to deal with the weather/predators and etc.. It =
was=20
treated no differently than Carolina Wrens coming to heated feeders with =
grubs=20
in it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In this case the bird was lured into a =
basement and=20
doors were shut. The hummingbird is now in captivity. When birders =
came to=20
photo the hummer it was a captive bird and if those birders wanted =
to know=20
if they can count it They have two options, either go =
by the=20
listing rules and not count the bird but just admired it or go ahead and =
add the=20
bird to thier personal list. Either way its your choice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now in my opinion I am sure the =
hummingbird will be=20
added onto the Minnesota Bird List. The hummingbird was seen outdoors on =
its own=20
coming to thier feeder. It wasn't initially ID as a Costa till it was =
filmed by=20
some TV crew and a birder knew its identity when he saw the clip on TV. =
The bird=20
was housed in a basement and was confided and its movement were =
controlled by=20
the homeowner. Its just like that Calliope Hummingbird record. The =
Hummingbird=20
looked like a Calliope but no one was absolutely sure until it was mist =
netted=20
and positive ID was than made. So the hummingbird was unidentified, =
lured in the=20
basement, filmed, and than it was identified. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So I am fairly certain it will be added =
to the=20
state list. Again I am not speaking for MOURC because I am not a MOURC =
member I=20
am just giving my opinion regarding to adding the bird to the state =
list. Also=20
remember MOURC doesn't govern listing rules/nor creates them or spends =
time with=20
them. They don't care about lists or listing rules. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope this helps.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mike Hendrickson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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